Joining us today is Anne Youssef, a senior consultant at Curio Group with a rich background in learning design and technology. Anne’s career journey has been marked by a diverse range of experiences, from her early work in resource development at TAFE NSW to her impactful roles at King’s College London and now Curio Group. Her expertise in crafting learner-centric experiences and her commitment to continuous growth and reflection have positioned her as a thought leader in the field. Today, she shares her insights and experiences that have shaped her career in learning design.
1. Can you tell us about your career journey in learning design so far? How did you get started in this field?
It has been very organic. I started off doing resource development in the distance education arm of TAFE NSW and then moved to the UK, where I supported online and distance learning at the School of Dentistry at King’s College London. I then moved into the learning technology team as an assistant learning technologist, and from there, the career trajectory became much more traditional as I progressed further into learning technology. When I moved home to Australia in 2019, I joined Curio as a learning designer, and over the past five years, I have grown into my current role as a senior consultant.
2. What were some key milestones or turning points in your career that led you to where you are today?
In 2017, whilst I was working for Kings College London, I happened to sit next to the Head of Technology Enhanced Learning at diversity and inclusion training, and we struck up a conversation about career paths, which led me to apply to join the team as an associate learning technologist. I learned so much in that team, and it paved the way for me to join Curio, which has been a real turning point for my career in terms of diversifying the types of projects and people I have had the chance to learn from and work with.
3. What aspects of your job bring you the most satisfaction and joy?
I love workshopping with clients, particularly in in the earlier stages of a project, when we work through obscurity to craft a clear learner journey, with a beautiful alignment threaded through the learning outcomes, assessment, and learning activities. I find it powerful to design authentic learning with the experts who are hiring the learners we’re designing for.
4. What are some of the most important skills you’ve developed in your career in learning design?
- Empathy and collaboration are key to designing authentic learning experiences.
- I have learned the most from projects that have gone wrong, so reflective practice and creating space to talk about what’s not working have been a big part of my later success.
- Explore the technologies available so you will be able to select the right ones when the opportunity requires it and learn a bit of coding.
- Writing ideas in dot points makes them easier to digest.
5. Can you share a specific project or experience that significantly contributed to your learning and growth in this field?
I worked on a CPD course with the University of Sydney over the span of three years. I actually went on parental leave and returned before finishing it off. I was working with two incredible Aboriginal academics and industry practitioners, Dr. Michael Mossman and Elle Davidson, who challenged my approach to designing content and encouraged me to explore an Aboriginal perspective on my practice. I’m so proud of the learning experience we created, and I have carried many practices forward in my work, such as; consulting widely, deconstructing and reconstructing learning, and non-linear learning journeys.
6. What are the most valuable lessons you’ve learned along the way?
To borrow a phrase from Brené Brown; always start with a ‘shitty first draft’. Don’t let your ego or insecurities prevent you from creating something. Then, once you have it down on virtual paper, you can more easily inspect it, test its alignment with your learning goals, and collaborate with others to create something greater. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing the abstract ideas, align in a clear and powerful narrative.
7. What advice would you give to someone looking to start a career in learning design?
Reflect upon your journey to reaching this point. The people I have loved working with the most, are those who have spent time exploring the richness of learning practices in different communities, cultures, and countries. Look at all your experiences as a learning journey; consider what they have taught you and how you learned them. I think this is the secret to truly authentic design.
8. Are there any common pitfalls or mistakes that you would advise new learning designers to avoid?
Feeling that they need to do it all on their own or that it needs to be perfect. Embrace the collective knowledge of a project team and try to create something early, even if it’s far from done so that you can gain feedback and iterate. Make sure you regularly zoom out from what you’re designing to avoid getting too stuck in the details and risking the greater narrative falling apart.
9. What resources (books, websites, courses, etc.) have been most helpful to you in your career?
A lot of my professional development in learning design has actually focused on how to create psychological safety and space within a project team so that creativity and collaboration can thrive. I think one of the key roles of a learning designer is to facilitate the dialogue with subject matter experts, graphic designers, and developers, so the resources that have best supported me in doing this have been the writings of Brené Brown and Simon Sinek. In terms of strict learning design, I often refer to https://www.8ways.online/ , Miro for brainstorming, and Chat GPT for generating ideas.
10. Are there any influential figures or mentors who have inspired or guided you in your learning design journey?
- Dr. Jonathan San Diego has been a truly influential leader and mentor, especially in my early days as a learning technologist, and he remains a good friend.
- Thomas Molloy taught me so much about storytelling and the importance of narrative in a learning journey.
- Professor Richard Buckland taught me to have fun with higher education design, and together, we created a unique, game-based cybersecurity course.
- Dr. Michael Mossman and Ellie Davidson taught me so much and challenged my design approach in the kindest but firmest ways.
11. How do you stay updated with the latest trends and developments in learning design?
One of the joys of working in a consultancy is that I can learn from my colleagues and clients on a regular basis. I have joined some learning design groups through LinkedIn and follow many thought leaders in education, through LinkedIn as well. I’ve had the opportunity to attend a number of conferences over my career and, love the discussions that take place in these spaces.
12. If you could go back in time, is there anything you would do differently in your career?
I wish I had settled on this path sooner, but, no, I wouldn’t change anything. I’ve learned so much from every choice I’ve made, especially the failures (working in the cash office at Target for 3 months taught me the importance of acknowledging my mathematical shortcomings and opting for more customer service-based roles).
13. What personal qualities do you think are most important for success in learning design?
I think a good sense of humour is important for any kind of success. Being empathetic, curious, and reflective will help you design learning that connects with learners. Learning design involves a lot of problem-solving and revision, so I would always look for people with confidence, resilience, and a healthy level of humility.
As we conclude our conversation with Anne Youssef, it’s clear that her journey in learning design has been both diverse and enriching. Her experiences across different countries and institutions have not only honed her skills but also deepened her understanding of the power of authentic learning experiences. Anne’s dedication to empathy, collaboration, and continuous learning serves as an inspiration for anyone looking to enter or advance in the field of learning design. Her reflections and advice remind us of the importance of embracing challenges and maintaining a learner’s mindset in all endeavours.